00:00:04: Welcome to the Human and Technology Podcast.

00:00:07: This podcast is for anyone who develops, distributes or uses technology For all those that always have a feeling that technology overwhelms or dominates them... ...for everyone wants know how to deal with technology in everyday life.. ..for anyone want so understand what technology does to us And How we can get our lives back.

00:00:32: this podcast is for those who want to make technology sexy.

00:00:37: All the product developers, designers, UX-UI professionals, product managers, CTOs and CEOs... And it's for you!

00:00:47: My name is Dr Peter Oreska.

00:00:50: my friends call me Dr Peter.

00:00:53: I am your host.

00:00:55: ...and i'm happy that are here.

00:01:05: Another episode of The Human Technology Podcast recently gave a keynote on ethical HMI.

00:01:14: It was during the World Usability Day, I hope that you had the chance to attend one of the events.

00:01:23: it is real global activity.

00:01:27: and yeah if not this year then next year every year in November there is the world usability day Within a keynote within thirty minutes and all the introductions on the outro that I have an All-the-call to actions instead of.

00:01:48: there is not.

00:01:50: There's limited time.

00:01:51: Let's put it this way, there's limited Time for The core thoughts And so I decided To make An episode here On the human technology podcast Where i Put in A few Thoughts That Go Beyond what I shared on stage.

00:02:15: We live in fascinating times so artificial intelligence writes us texts, develops software analyzes medical images holds conversations and robots are leaving the research lab.

00:02:32: Cars are increasingly driving themselves when machines taking over tasks we thought would require human intelligence just a few years ago.

00:02:43: Technologically, things that used to be science fiction are now becoming reality.

00:02:50: but does any of these make us better human beings?

00:02:54: Does it really improve our lives ?

00:02:58: Does it make our society fairer?

00:03:02: or are we developing technologies us.

00:03:13: And we talk a lot about ethical AI, regulations transparency fairness data privacy and then all of this is important.

00:03:22: don't get me wrong when all This isn't necessary but one crucial question does not guilt that much intention Not enough attention from my point of view.

00:03:33: Our official intelligence Isn't the one That needs to take responsibility.

00:03:39: We are the ones that need to take responsibility.

00:03:43: And this is where things may get a little uncomfortable, especially for those of us who develop design and market technology.

00:03:55: I will run through a couple thoughts here starting with The Big Lie behind words.

00:04:02: Smartphones aren't smart on social media isn't social content.

00:04:08: creators don't create content.

00:04:11: Now artificial intelligence isn't intelligent, at least not in the human sense and from my point of view The term artificial intelligence is a so-called oxymoron meaning a contradiction within itself.

00:04:27: it means that an intelligence cannot be artificial.

00:04:31: Intelligence is always human.

00:04:34: It's always natural.

00:04:36: I'm not human.

00:04:37: natural animals can be intelligent as well.

00:04:40: And so, yeah artificial intelligence is not existing.

00:04:43: but I'm talking against this since a couple of years.

00:04:48: and who am i to talk against this huge wave where artificial intelligence has used everywhere?

00:04:57: So at the end of day all right let's use this term being aware that intelligence cannot.

00:05:07: We describe technologies using words that promise human qualities, intelligence creativity empathy understanding friendship and a smartphone doesn't automatically make us smarter.

00:05:20: It can make is mentally lazy social media can make as lonely or an artificial intelligence can lead to stop thinking for ourselves.

00:05:28: And don't get me wrong I'm an engineer, i love technology.

00:05:32: I've spent more than thirty years working on how humans and machines interact.

00:05:37: I have seen amazing innovations.

00:05:41: saving lives making work easier open up entirely new possibilities!

00:05:49: I also see plenty of solutions desperately searching for a problem.

00:05:54: A language model can write convincing texts in seconds but does that make the text accurate?

00:06:00: relevant, valuable.

00:06:03: An image creator can create stunning visuals but what's the intention behind them?

00:06:09: A digital assistant can make decisions for me But does it make me a better decision maker?

00:06:17: We keep confusing technologically capabilities with human value.

00:06:23: we say AI understands us things or makes decisions.

00:06:29: those are convenient descriptions, but they attempt us to assign qualities to systems that they simply don't have.

00:06:38: AI can sound empathic without feeling empathy.

00:06:41: it can make recommendations without taking responsibility for the consequences.

00:06:46: when we start treating machines as intelligence intelligent understanding As responsible counterparts We may give them more authority than they deserve.

00:06:58: We delegate tasks, often a good idea.

00:07:01: We delegate decisions already more questionable and eventually we may even dedicate our judgment.

00:07:09: And at that point the question remains in this unanswered who is really in control?

00:07:18: Technology has no moral compass.

00:07:24: A car can bring an emergency doctor to patient or put people's lives at risk.

00:07:30: Social media can connect families or tear societies apart.

00:07:34: Our official intelligence can help detect diseases earlier, support people with disabilities all be used for mass surveillance and manipulation.

00:07:43: it can even in the very end endanger democracies.

00:07:48: The underlying technology is same.

00:07:51: The outcomes could not more different.

00:07:54: So is Technology neutral?

00:07:57: Nope, it's not that simple.

00:08:00: But basically... It is!

00:08:03: Developing technology already involves countless decisions.

00:08:06: What problems are we trying to solve?

00:08:08: what data do we use?

00:08:10: What goals do we optimize for?

00:08:13: What business models do we pursue and what risks our willing to accept All these human decision during the development of a technology?

00:08:26: A recommendation algorithm optimized for maximum time spent on a platform isn't neutral.

00:08:33: Neither is an interface designed to push people toward decisions using psychological tricks, so-called nudging and usability.

00:08:43: Technology reflects the values interests and priorities of those who develop and operate it but does have a moral compass?

00:08:52: Definitely not!

00:08:54: Technology doesn't decide what's right.

00:08:57: We humans set the

00:08:58: standards."

00:08:59: That that is why we need principles, guidelines oversight mechanisms and laws for artificial intelligence.

00:09:08: And at end this not enough.

00:09:10: Ethics isn´t a software feature which can simply switch on.

00:09:15: Adding another menu option does make an algorithm moral and publishing of AI principles doesn't automatically make a company responsible.

00:09:26: Ethical technology comes from human decisions, from priorities—from the courage to leave certain things undeveloped and from the willingness to walk away from revenue when that revenue depends on manipulation dependency or exploitation.

00:09:46: We don't just need ethical AI.

00:09:49: we need people humans And organizations that develop and use technology according to ethical standards.

00:09:58: That's a lot harder than just publishing another copyright policy.

00:10:08: There is war going on, it's the war for our brains.

00:10:12: The battlefield is in our brain.

00:10:15: at price we pay is out.

00:10:16: soul Sounds dramatic?

00:10:22: Maybe take a look at what's happening in the digital world.

00:10:26: The most valuable resource and digital economy is not oil, not gold or even data.

00:10:33: it is our attention because attention can be turned into money!

00:10:40: The longer we stay on a platform ,the more advertising that can show us.

00:10:44: .The better a company understands their behavior ..the more precisely they can target us.

00:10:50: Infinite Scrolling Autoplay videos, personalized recommendations notifications likes reward mechanisms artificial scarcity.

00:11:01: Individually these features may seem harmless but together they create a system designed to fight for our attention and artificial intelligence makes that system even more powerful.

00:11:14: algorithms identify the content that interests us upsets or scares.

00:11:19: They analyze our reactions and select what we'll see next.

00:11:24: Not necessarily because that content is good for us, but it keeps us engaged.

00:11:32: Of course not every digital application trying to make people dependent But whenever attention is the business model there's a fundamental conflict of interest.

00:11:46: What's financially valuable isn't necessarily valuable for the human being using it.

00:11:56: An extra hour of screen time can be a business success, and an hour of somebody's life wasted.

00:12:03: An emotionally charged post can generate enormous reach while fueling hate.

00:12:09: A perfectly personalized information environment can gradually narrow our views of reality Our social bubbles.

00:12:20: We build machines to take work off our shoulders, and now we need make sure they don't think out of the hands.

00:12:33: What concerns me most is how naturally technology has started filling every empty moment in their lives.

00:12:41: Five minutes awaiting?

00:12:43: Pull the smartphone!

00:12:44: A difficult thought asks AI.

00:12:45: a moment of boredom.

00:12:47: there's always another video.

00:12:49: When was it last time?

00:12:51: you just sat somewhere and thought.

00:12:55: Our brains don't need constant input, they need quiet bottom contradiction time to develop ideas.

00:13:07: And those are exactly the spaces we're increasingly filling with technology.

00:13:13: Are We Still Using Technology?

00:13:15: Or Is Technology Already Using Us?

00:13:22: Now it's getting personal.

00:13:25: I'm going to talk in the next two, three minutes about uncomfortable truths for the UX community.

00:13:36: For decades we've been working on a usability user experience and human-centered design.

00:13:42: Now i have spent large parts of my professional life improving interaction between humans and machines but with drivers and cars We analyze user needs, develop personas study use cases and test interfaces.

00:13:58: we want technology to be easier more intuitive More understandable or more enjoyable.

00:14:04: a good thing in principle but we need To ask ourselves an uncomfortable question Are we making?

00:14:12: Technology better for people Or are we making People easier For technology companies to exploit?

00:14:21: That is the big question.

00:14:23: We optimize conversation rates, retention engagement time-time spend reduce clicks and remove obstacles.

00:14:33: Sorry but what exactly are we optimizing?

00:14:36: An app can deliver a fantastic user experience intuitive fast attractive perfectly personalized And still make me waste three hours of my lifetime every single day.

00:14:49: an AI system Can answer every question in seconds friendly, understandable always available and still make me think less for myself.

00:15:02: A perfectly usable system can be deeply unethical.

00:15:08: Good usability alone doesn't make good technology a questionable.

00:15:12: business model Doesn't become ethical just because its user interface is beautifully designed.

00:15:21: A harmful application doesn't become valuable just because humans enjoy using it.

00:15:28: We need to think beyond our traditional understanding of user experience.

00:15:35: The classic question in UX is can people use the system easily?

00:15:41: Is it fun, are they getting some out-of-it?

00:15:49: Maybe should they be using the system at all?

00:15:53: Does it improve their lives, strengthens their independence respect their dignity develop their abilities and competences.

00:16:04: And who at the very end actually benefits from what I'm doing?

00:16:11: we also need to look beyond The individual user.

00:16:16: technology can be fascinating for one person and create serious problems for others.

00:16:21: A navigation app finds the fastest route while sending additional traffic through residential neighborhoods, so I'm with a navigation system benefit from it... ...the people.

00:16:33: maybe there's shortcut somewhere when they're living along that short cut.

00:16:38: They have negative effects.

00:16:41: AI, artificial intelligence increases productivity while putting employees under pressure.

00:16:47: A platform offers free services whilst shifting its social costs onto everyone else.

00:16:54: We have depressions based on Instagram and we need to treat this in our medical systems.

00:17:03: Now we have big disorientation of young people using social media And the schools have to keep up with it.

00:17:11: And this is where a problem, an issue in the technology and then HMI has an effect beyond the sure human machine interaction.

00:17:26: It's like society-technology interaction.

00:17:29: we are moving on so We need to think not only about Human-centered design but also about Society-centered Design.

00:17:39: Yeah, good usability makes technology usable.

00:17:44: Good ethics make it responsible and at the end don't get me wrong we need both.

00:17:50: It's not one or other.

00:17:52: We NEED to make it easy-to-use fun use but also ethical in all its consequences.

00:18:04: And there's one word we almost automatically treat as negative in user experience and usability.

00:18:13: Friction, friction means efforts delays frustration.

00:18:20: so we eliminated fewer clicks fewer inputs less thinking.

00:18:26: everything is easy as somehow possible.

00:18:31: Is that always better?

00:18:34: Imagine I'm about to share an angry post on social media, hurting someone badly.

00:18:43: And one click is all it takes.

00:18:48: maybe It could be better if the system first asks me whether i actually read The content and what do you really want to posted?

00:18:58: Whether its really useful.

00:19:01: If AI prepares An important decision Maybe I should be required to review its assumptions.

00:19:10: What consequences is it having and what it's based on?

00:19:16: Where does that come

00:19:17: from?".

00:19:19: When a system provides medical recommendations, uncertainty should be visible instead of presenting seemingly perfectly answers.

00:19:29: This one bad thing about all these chat Jpts and Clods or whatever.

00:19:37: It seems to be so perfect, it's smooth and easy.

00:19:42: The question is... Is that really true?

00:19:48: And at the end before making a major financial decision A moment of reflection might be worth more than an easy transaction.

00:20:05: Not all friction is bad usability.

00:20:08: Sometimes, friction protects us from mistakes.

00:20:13: It makes risks invisible it prevents manipulation or simply forces us to turn on our brains.

00:20:25: Thinking force people into thinking Is not necessarily a usability failure.

00:20:31: of course Nobody should have to think about how to use a light switch.

00:20:37: For simple tasks, frictionless interaction makes perfect sense.

00:20:42: Coming from the automotive world of course Friction less interaction may gain safety because in automotive an HMI usually is secondary task.

00:20:55: we need drive.

00:20:56: So today with all automation principles and ideas This is not the point, but if we move on to AI for example.

00:21:08: To computer interactions smartphones and directions.

00:21:12: Friction may be a good thing because it keeps us away from making dumb things.

00:21:19: Yeah with that there are situations where thinking isn't an obstacle.

00:21:24: It is the entire point.

00:21:27: And Definitely this isn't about deliberately designing bad interfaces.

00:21:33: Not at all.

00:21:34: exactly the opposite.

00:21:35: It is about introducing friction where it serves a meaningful purpose, Where it makes sense.

00:21:45: After all A good break isn't a design flaw.

00:21:51: Sometimes the most ethical interface Is one that make us stop and think.

00:22:01: Maybe we also need to rethink our Success metrics.

00:22:04: not every additional minute of screen time is a success.

00:22:08: Not every interaction creates value, not Every automated decision represents progress.

00:22:14: and now every second saved makes our lives better.

00:22:23: Use the computer.

00:22:24: don't let the computer use you.

00:22:27: I think that's from Prince.

00:22:28: I don't know.

00:22:30: It's all about taking back control.

00:22:33: this sounds pretty simple maybe even obvious.

00:22:36: I believe that this is one of the most important routes for dealing with modern technology, we should decide for ourselves when and why we use technology?

00:22:48: And when do we consciously choose not to use it ?

00:22:55: Not every notification deserves our intention ,not every thought needs immediately handed over to AI.

00:23:01: Not every application that keeps us busy actually enriches our lives, but responsibility doesn't lie with users alone.

00:23:14: it would be far too easy to tell people to spend less time on their smartphones while simultaneously developing systems whose business models depend on keeping them hooked.

00:23:28: developers designers engineers scientists, business leaders.

00:23:34: They all carry a special responsibility.

00:23:37: we decide which technologies we create what goals they pursue and what data they collect Which decisions they automate?

00:23:47: And how much freedom they leave to the users.

00:23:52: that's why We should ask free fundamental questions about every new product feature an AI project.

00:24:02: Number one, does this technology make people stronger or more dependent?

00:24:08: Does it expand their abilities?

00:24:09: they're competencies.

00:24:11: Or doesn't take away skills They should actually keep?

00:24:16: question number two Does it inform or manipulate?

00:24:22: Doesn't help People making better decisions are desert quietly push them into a specific particular direction.

00:24:35: And question number three we should ask ourselves, does it solve a real human problem?

00:24:41: Or are you reinventing artificial needs because we have developed the technology and now desperately need to market use case for it?

00:24:52: beyond these three questions who becomes more powerful through this technology?

00:24:59: is that person using good or company controlling probably bad?

00:25:06: We need to ask these questions before development, during development after launch.

00:25:13: Not just when the damage becomes visible.

00:25:18: we also need to accept that sometimes The right decision is not To use a technology at all!

00:25:24: Not every tasks needs to be automated and not Every human interaction needs to digitized.

00:25:28: And not every decision belongs in the hands of algorithms should make it to the market.

00:25:38: And that's definitely not anti-technology, That's technological responsibility.

00:25:49: Final thought technology is not a goal.

00:25:51: value is my new claim in my consultancy.

00:25:56: business Technology Is Not The Goal.

00:26:00: Value Is.

00:26:02: We live in a world where almost anything seems technologically possible.

00:26:06: Our official intelligence is taking more and more tasks, robotics it's becoming more capable automation is moving into entirely new areas all fascinating.

00:26:17: after More than thirty years working on the interaction of humans and technology I have learned one thing technological possibilities don't automatically translate into meaningful applications and impressive innovations don't necessarily mean progress.

00:26:36: We often ask the wrong questions, how powerful is this system?

00:26:40: How many parameters does this model have?

00:26:42: How Many tasks can we automate?

00:26:44: How may people use the application?

00:26:48: Interesting metrics?

00:26:49: no question but they tell us surprisingly little about the actual value a technology creates.

00:26:57: A System Can have millions of users while making their lives worse.

00:27:02: Automation can save money by causing important human skills to fade out, AI can deliver impressive results and still be completely unsuitable for the task at hand.

00:27:17: we need start talking more about human needs again safety independence health orientation trust belonging personal development quality of life.

00:27:32: Not talking about what technology happens to be particularly good at, but about what humans actually need.

00:27:41: A medical AI system creates a value when it enables better diagnostics and treatments.

00:27:48: An industrial robot creates value When it relieves people from dangerous work.

00:27:54: A communication platform creates value when its strengthens real relationships.

00:28:00: An interface creates value when it helps humans to achieve their goals safely and independently.

00:28:08: Technology isn't the benchmark, humans are!

00:28:14: And we shouldn't be naive.

00:28:16: what's valuable for one person may harm another.

00:28:19: What is convenient in short term can become pragmatic long-term and what financially attractive isn't necessary.

00:28:26: good for society.

00:28:29: That why need make decisions trade-offs, take responsibility and people who are willing to say no.

00:28:40: Know the features that manipulate users.

00:28:43: know to automation who risks what we can control.

00:28:49: Know business models that profit from human dependency.

00:28:54: Know technologies look impressive but create real value.

00:29:01: for me That is the essence of ethical AI not the idea that we can somehow teach machines morality and then sit back and relax but The realization that we humans must remain responsible for the goals.

00:29:17: We said at the systems, we build decisions.

00:29:19: We delegate And the consequences that follow Technology.

00:29:25: it's not a goal.

00:29:26: values.

00:29:29: Say in again technology is not the goal values.

00:29:33: Maybe we should stop asking only how can make technology more powerful, faster and easier to use.

00:29:41: maybe We should ask more often whether need it in the first place And if do what for?

00:29:53: I imagine a future where technology makes people stronger not more dependent Where artificial intelligence expands our thinking instead of replacing Where digital systems give us time instead of stealing our lives and where we have the courage not to develop everything We possibly could because in the end It's it's not about her intelligence on machine.

00:30:24: It's about how intelligently?

00:30:26: We humans used them.

00:30:28: Yeah, use the computer don't let it use you.

00:30:32: And I've one final question for everyone developing and designing technology Are we creating technologies that people actually need?

00:30:41: Sorry, or are we creating people who need our technologies.

00:30:48: Let's say it again...are we creating technology?

00:30:51: is the people I actually meet?

00:30:53: Or are you creating people with me to our technologies which should think about them Before developing the next feature, before launching the Next AI project and before claiming once again that technological progress automatically means human progress.

00:31:11: The future of technology won't be decided by Codelom but will be decided our heads!

00:31:23: That's it for today.

00:31:25: Thank you for spending time with me.

00:31:27: I hope to take something.

00:31:31: Do something for yourself.

00:31:32: that will be forever.