00:00:04: Welcome to the Human and Technology Podcast.

00:00:07: This podcast is for anyone who develops, distributes or uses technology.

00:00:14: For all those that always have a feeling that technology overwhelms or dominates them... ...for everyone wants know how to deal with technology in everyday life.. ..for anyone want so understand what technology does to us And How we can get our lives back.

00:00:32: this podcast is for those who want to make technology sexy.

00:00:37: All the product developers, designers, UX-UI professionals, product managers, CTOs and CEOs... And it's for you!

00:00:47: My name is Dr Peter Oreska.

00:00:50: my friends call me Dr Peter.

00:00:53: I am your host ...and i'm happy that are here.

00:01:00: Hello hello and welcome to this episode of The Human Technology Podcast.

00:01:09: This is the second episode out of three where I analyze the past five years off CES, The Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.

00:01:25: What it is?

00:01:25: I took all the reports that are right every year put them side by side and analyzed him.

00:01:31: so i won't just highlight things but Draw technological development lines how they, yeah interact or interfere.

00:01:42: How their overlap and then how there are woven into a sheet of technology that we have.

00:01:52: and in the past week passed episode I talked about three Automotive technology trends I saw over the past five years.

00:02:07: And if you haven't heard that episode, go back listen to the episode before this one That's what I heavily recommend and then return here and listen to this one.

00:02:20: This time we're gonna talk about four topics Two of them still automotive focused and two of them AI artificial intelligence and robotics oriented.

00:02:38: So number one is autonomous driving, it's just different than expected.

00:02:44: Number two the evolution of automotive HMIs.

00:02:50: how I saw over the past five years which core competences where I'm coming from.

00:02:56: This is my ground to stand on, so i'll talk about Automotive HMIs.

00:03:04: Number three will be about already official intelligence From almost nothing in uh... twenty-twenty two To everything!

00:03:19: To physical AI this year in twenty-two six.

00:03:24: And number four, it's about robots.

00:03:27: About androids.

00:03:29: do they really have to be humanoids?

00:03:33: Where is the uncanny valley?

00:03:35: so this these are the fourth things I want to talk about today.

00:03:39: Let's kick off with autonomous driving.

00:03:44: There was a time when the future of the automobile or the cars were pretty clear.

00:03:50: now there where case that we're connected automated, shared and electric.

00:03:57: In particular the promises around the autonomous part were huge.

00:04:04: one day we would just get into our cars tell them where want to go then work read sleep watch Netflix.

00:04:13: whatever you wanted do in a car is doing everything else everywhere In Stuttgart, during a rush hour in Berlin and the rain on a mountain road to Mallorca.

00:04:27: it will work everywhere.

00:04:29: It'll work across borders.

00:04:31: I can drive here from where i am at this moment near Stuttgard down my second home in Mallorco without any problems.

00:04:42: This was the problem And for long time there were just one question When will the fully autonomous car finally arrive?

00:04:55: Today, I see a different question.

00:04:59: Which autonomous vehicle will arrive?

00:05:03: for which purpose?

00:05:05: and that's big difference.

00:05:07: autonomy again appeared As in my early CES reports, it's ubiquitous there.

00:05:15: In the past almost ten years we talked about things like lead or radar cameras sensor fusion and people move as robot taxis.

00:05:26: The technology was impressive And I always remained a bit skeptical.

00:05:34: people movers from ZF, ZUX, Yanai Mobus, Ital Design, Houlon.

00:05:42: They were displayed at CES and they looked remarkably similar.

00:05:46: boxes on wheels in the interior had a charm of a dentist's office And the actual innovation wasn't visible.

00:05:55: but it is hard to show.

00:05:57: autonomy connectivity The mobility concept has already shown.

00:06:02: surprisingly all these companies ended up with something very similar.

00:06:07: And at that time I wrote, I'm still doubtful on full autonomy of vehicles and everyday traffic.

00:06:18: hopefully i will be proven wrong in the next years.

00:06:23: a few years have passed ,I was partly right and partly wrong.

00:06:29: let's get this step back.

00:06:31: maybe our idea?

00:06:36: Yeah, for a long time we thought about autonomy in a linear way level.

00:06:41: one two three four five five fully autonomous yeah.

00:06:46: and then at the end every car will drive itself everywhere.

00:06:52: technology rarely develops as smooth as PowerPoint slides make us believe.

00:07:01: Reality looks for niche Places, use cases locations where technology creates a real visible advantage.

00:07:12: And this is exactly what happened.

00:07:15: Autonomous transport platforms for industrial sites or ports for highly automated agricultural machinery mining trucks logistics last mile delivery trucking those are the areas were autonomous driving made enormous progress And in these vehicles, very often nobody is sitting on the rear watching a movie.

00:07:39: Sometimes no body's sitting this vehicle at all.

00:07:43: and that exactly why those applications work.

00:07:45: so autonomy becomes particularly interesting when people don't want to perform task whether it monotonous dangerous physically demanding or any vehicle can operate much longer without driver.

00:08:01: twenty-twenty five Suzuki and applied to be presented the blank robot.

00:08:09: An autonomous electric transport platform not a specular concept car, it was almost totally non spectacular almost invisible.

00:08:19: you could pass through without recognizing what they were showing.

00:08:24: I was basically skateboard on wheels for different applications that he couldn't plug on different things to the skateboard and turn it then into a delivery vehicle, onto transport vehicle whatever.

00:08:37: And that is less sexy than an autonomous luxury car but its definitely more relevant.

00:08:47: so autonomy in this case had started solving a problem.

00:08:54: Robotuxes evolved as well.

00:08:56: Zooks did not present a completely new vehicle every year and instead they kept improving the same concept, testing, improving software accumulating miles, finding errors, testing again... Probably that's what maturity looks like.

00:09:12: The vehicle has neither steering wheels nor paddles.

00:09:16: It is designed specifically for a robot taxi.

00:09:21: A customer doesn't buy machine buys a ride.

00:09:30: In twenty-twenty six, this year's I had to revise my skepticism.

00:09:37: things became personally very interesting for me.

00:09:41: i saw Waymo vehicles in Los Angeles on the street and Zooks vehicles in Las Vegas not an exhibition stand outside in traffic.

00:09:53: autonomy was no longer just a promise.

00:09:55: it not for every use case.

00:10:00: Not as a universal solution, but it is real.

00:10:05: and at the same time two different futures became visible.

00:10:11: Waymo & Zooks aim to replace the professional driver.

00:10:15: autonomy is NOT a feature.

00:10:18: It's the foundation of the business model.

00:10:22: And wherever you look where autonomous cars or vehicles are on the roads, it always replaces a professional driver.

00:10:38: We have Driver Shortage globally.

00:10:40: nobody wants to drive car or truck any kind of vehicle and make money without this.

00:10:46: some people have too because they don't have an alternative but at the very end day that number is surprisingly low.

00:10:56: Yeah, so we need this one to fight driver shortage.

00:11:01: and then you have these professional applications Alongside.

00:11:06: with that the privately owned car remains.

00:11:10: People still own their cars and may even continue to enjoy driving them.

00:11:15: Yep But but the vehicle takes over specific driving tasks.

00:11:19: That's a level two level three scenarios We see in many cars And there will not be only one path.

00:11:27: There will be at least these two paths.

00:11:30: Replacing professional drivers with more or less level four, almost level five kind of cars.

00:11:38: and then there is the private cars that remain on Level Two or Level Three.

00:11:46: At the end of day I don't want my motorcycle to be autonomous Never!

00:11:52: If i have to drive five hundred kilometers on a German Autobahn for our next client visit Of course Car please take over.

00:12:00: Stop and go traffic, car please takeover.

00:12:04: but when I'm riding my Harley on a winding road in the Swabian out I don't want any algorithm to relieve me of The driving task because the driving task is what i want to perform Riding as the reason.

00:12:19: That's why I am here And that matters.

00:12:22: For long time we discussed automation.

00:12:26: Less human involvement is automatically better.

00:12:31: If people don't want to perform a task, automation can create enormous value.

00:12:37: if People WANT TO perform a Task the same Automation Can destroy Value.

00:12:44: and The difference Is not the technology that Differentis the Human and Reality as always will probably Somewhere in between.

00:12:55: I am driving And the Vehicle is driving And this is where human-machine interaction, HMIs become critical.

00:13:04: Who was responsible?

00:13:06: What can the vehicle do?

00:13:07: what cannot it not to?

00:13:10: when does the human need to take over?

00:13:13: Does the driver understand the automation mode?

00:13:16: after a long period of automated driving our drivers ready to regain control and these are not side issues.

00:13:26: This for me critical issues that we need to solve within the next months and years on the automotive HMI side, indicating on a dashboard who's doing what.

00:13:39: And how will that change in the next couple of seconds?

00:13:44: So probably they most difficult step is not so much from level four or five.

00:13:50: The biggest problem Is probably somewhere between human and machine.

00:13:57: now We have artificial intelligence And that changes the discussion again.

00:14:01: Autonomous systems need to perceive their environment, understand situations make decisions and at the end act.

00:14:08: Perceive Understand Decide Act.

00:14:11: Autonomist vehicles are one of a most demanding forms physical AI.

00:14:15: I'm gonna talk about physical AI later in this episode what it is.

00:14:20: Looking at past five years of CES i don't see the failure.

00:14:25: autonomous driving I see technology growing up.

00:14:29: growing up is usually less spectacular than puberty.

00:14:37: The promises that the more mature technology becomes, the promises become smaller and the applications become more concrete...the limitations become visible ...and the value of a solution becomes much more important.

00:14:54: Autonomy is finding the place where it makes really sense Robotaxis, tracks and industrial sites mining agriculture private vehicles.

00:15:03: We talked about this all different applications tons of different business models Different levels of autonomy And once again there is not one future out there.

00:15:15: There's many futures are they?

00:15:18: Maybe we should stop asking When will the autonomous car arrive?

00:15:24: it is their.

00:15:25: The more interesting question Is where does autonomy Create enough value for us humans to actually want to let go of the steering wheel.

00:15:41: Let's move on number two, automotive HMIs.

00:15:46: I've been working in human machine interaction and automotive HMIs that is no more than thirty years.

00:15:56: This is basically the reason why I do something at CES that probably not every other visitor does.

00:16:03: I look and buttons, yeah?

00:16:03: And get into cars in a... Look at interior and how they arrange it!

00:16:09: What's architecture of dashboards?

00:16:12: Displays, rotary controls, manual head up displays, haptics voice interaction.

00:16:18: very often i sit on car trying to figure out Why someone thought this particular concept.

00:16:26: This particular architecture is a good idea and the past few CES editions tell us an interesting story, let's put it that way It starts with more display is better And at least for now it ends with how much interface does a human actually need?

00:16:53: Over the years if I look back some like twenty five thirty years mechanical instruments became digital switches became touch surfaces, navigation entertainment vehicle functions moved on to central displays.

00:17:06: The display's got bigger and they get bigger again.

00:17:10: Digital clusters, center stack displays passenger display, rear seat entertainment, digital mirrors head up displays.

00:17:19: And at the end we have these pillar-to-pillar solutions where the entire dashboard is A display.

00:17:30: Yeah, one example in twenty-twenty three the Afila a joint project of Sony and Hanna.

00:17:38: they presented exactly this kind of a display landscape And it was spectacular.

00:17:44: no question yeah.

00:17:46: then The question there is if software defines the car Software needs an interface right?

00:17:54: For years CES seemed to follow simple rule bigger is better.

00:17:59: But eventually I started asking, what is the real benefit?

00:18:03: Where do i gain something?

00:18:07: It's not a problem to build something across the entire cockpit.

00:18:11: We can't do this!

00:18:12: The problem was why should we do it?

00:18:17: A display isn't user experience.

00:18:20: Large displays are first of all large surfaces and nothing more.

00:18:25: What matters is what happens on them which information they need?

00:18:30: What do I need to see?

00:18:31: what could i hear or feel instead?

00:18:34: How quickly can a find the function?

00:18:37: how much attention Does it require?

00:18:40: and above all Why, do i need.

00:18:42: To look at a screen At all?

00:18:46: humans don't experience that environment as A display.

00:18:50: we sear here Feel move we perceive things peripherally We touch objects without looking at them And then We, as an industry put people into a vehicle and reduce interaction to a shiny black screen of glass.

00:19:09: That is at the very least in interesting design decision.

00:19:13: In twenty-twenty five The first changes became visible smaller clusters for relevant driving information larger center screens for navigation secondary functions less maximum display or more structure prioritization last restriction.

00:19:34: In twenty-twenty six, I claimed we are after peak display.

00:19:40: don't get me wrong.

00:19:41: displays and not disappearing.

00:19:43: they're excellent for complex and dynamic information.

00:19:47: They can provide great user experience but their continuous expansion the duration of growth has reached a saturation point.

00:20:01: Cockpits appeared more disciplined.

00:20:06: Additional screens were used where there was an actual use case, and the spectacular pillar-to-pillar concepts had more or less

00:20:14: disappeared."

00:20:16: And I like that!

00:20:17: I liked it very much not because i don't like this place but because more interface does NOT automatically mean better interaction.

00:20:27: at the same time something else is happening.

00:20:33: There's a beautiful book out there by a guy called David Sacks, it's called The Revenge of the Analog.

00:20:38: It can also occur to call up the return of the analog – not that aggressive!

00:20:45: Now what we see in cars is the return on buttons, rotary controls, haptic surfaces and mechanical feedback…and this isn't a case of nostalgia...it is because the human body is remarkably good at interacting with physical things.

00:21:02: That's why you're made for.

00:21:03: We are analogue beings And I can feel a rotary control.

00:21:08: I know where to press the button, and perform an action without directing all of my visual attention towards it!

00:21:15: This isn't romantic nostalgia... It's perceptional psychology.

00:21:22: So this question is not analog or digital.

00:21:25: The question is which form of interaction fits which task?

00:21:32: Which user?

00:21:33: in what context?

00:21:35: Sometimes a display, sometimes a watch.

00:21:37: Sometimes a physical button... ...sometimes haptics and sometimes technology should simply leave me alone.

00:21:47: Haptics is particularly interesting.

00:21:49: A seed is constantly in contact with my body.

00:21:52: why not use it?

00:21:53: I don't necessarily need to see directional information.

00:21:57: i can feel that warning doesn't always have to be red graphic on the screen.

00:22:03: It can be vibration of my seat.

00:22:07: So the HMI changing from screen-centric to body-centric.

00:22:14: Let's put it that way, and I like this idea maybe because humans consist of considerably more than two eyes in an index finger which is what we usually use when we interact with high tech technology.

00:22:29: And twenty twenty six i used the term humane HMI for this yeah?

00:22:34: An interface aligned with how humans actually perceive think and act.

00:22:39: multimodal, context-dependent subtle physical.

00:22:43: Not every piece of information needs to demand attention.

00:22:47: not Every function needs To be a man you?

00:22:51: Not every feature needs visible representation and maybe That is technological maturity.

00:23:01: At first technology has to show it Is there.

00:23:05: later It is allowed to disappear.

00:23:08: then artificial intelligence comes back into the picture.

00:23:11: until now.

00:23:12: The roles were clear, human gives a command and vehicle response.

00:23:19: but what happens when the vehicle understands context knows our habits makes suggestions takes decisions or drives itself?

00:23:29: then HMI becomes question of cooperation.

00:23:34: I used to hate this term.

00:23:37: with AI i'm ready use it.

00:23:41: Human machine cooperation.

00:23:44: who is in control?

00:23:46: Why has the vehicle doing something?

00:23:48: what will do next?

00:23:49: and What does it expect from me?

00:23:50: can I trust it, and The interface increasingly becomes a matter of Relationship not a human-human relationship.

00:24:01: My car's not gonna become my friend.

00:24:05: At least my car would now become my friends.

00:24:08: but expectations trust misunderstanding, responsibility and control they emerge.

00:24:16: And that is why human-centered design does not become less important.

00:24:20: with increasing AI information it becomes more important for me.

00:24:25: the development can be reduced into four directions from screens to embodied multi sensory interaction From commands to conversation and collaboration.

00:24:43: visual dominance to calm peripheral awareness from fixed interfaces, two contextual liquid systems.

00:24:56: And I like that idea much better than one more.

00:24:59: One point five meter wide display.

00:25:02: and maybe the best technology is not a technology That constantly fights for our intention.

00:25:08: The best technology usually understands when we need it how we needed first of all We don't.

00:25:18: And so again, the future of the human-machine interface is not a technological issue.

00:25:23: It doesn't start with a machine it starts... ...with a human Number.

00:25:33: three off today's podcast, Artificial Intelligence!

00:25:40: It is remarkable how quickly normality changes Today.

00:25:44: its almost impossible to talk about technology without talking about artificial intelligence.

00:25:50: In my CES twenty two report AI played basically no role, was not a major trend.

00:25:58: Not because it didn't exist.

00:26:00: Yeah machine learning computer vision natural language processing they were already very real but AI wasn't the story.

00:26:09: one year later that has changed.

00:26:12: yeah in twenty-twenty three I explicitly wrote about artificial intelligence at CES for the first time in my reports and AI had started to replace the word smart.

00:26:29: For years, everything has been smart.

00:26:31: Smart phones, smart homes, smart TVs, smart mobility, smart city and now suddenly... ...everything was AI or at least it wanted-to be.

00:26:41: Technology terms have an interesting career.

00:26:44: At first hardly anyone understands them.

00:26:46: then they become interesting.

00:26:48: Then they became hype.

00:26:49: then marketing departments stick them on to everything that cannot run away fast enough.

00:26:58: Then chatGPT arrived, the technology wasn't new and the excess was new.

00:27:04: ChatGPt and all of other large language models they are an HMI phenomenon.

00:27:13: suddenly AI is not something abstract somewhere in a background But it was something where I had a real interface, super easy to use.

00:27:22: Now i just type the question on my keyboard and look at my screen And then hit enter button.

00:27:28: Then you get an answer.

00:27:30: Very easy for us computer people.

00:27:35: Similar to the internet The Internet existed long before the browser until in late sixties In mid nineties Suddenly became popular with the internet browsers.

00:27:49: AI existed long before Chatchapiti and in both cases, it's a nature of my thing.

00:27:55: And with the idea that I can type something into machine answers gives me at least reasonable answer.

00:28:03: maybe not true or correct answer but a reasonable answer yeah.

00:28:08: then suddenly complex technology turns to an experience.

00:28:14: so It was a breakthrough.

00:28:18: The AI Breakthrough based on large language models and the ease of use for them was, yeah an HMI break.

00:28:27: For HMI based through.

00:28:32: in twenty-twenty four AI was everywhere at CS sometimes useful sometime fascinating.

00:28:38: Sometimes I stood in front of a product thinking seriously guys is that what you want?

00:28:44: Do have you really thought about this?

00:28:47: And the same time applications become more concrete.

00:28:51: Yeah, natural language interaction.

00:28:52: Language lettering which models?

00:28:54: personization predictive maintenance context awareness.

00:28:59: and in twenty-twenty five then my chapter on a. I carried the title artificial intelligence.

00:29:05: The number one trend now was torn.

00:29:10: On one hand everything is AI driven.

00:29:12: on the other hand it became clear that AI probably wasn't simply the next buzzword after smart.

00:29:20: So again, I compared to the internet of the nineteen nineties and Many of the Internet companies disappeared.

00:29:27: The internet did not disappear And something similar will happen with AI.

00:29:32: we may laugh about some of today's AI products and billion dollars investments in a few years But AI itself artificial intelligence will not disappear.

00:29:44: Maybe label would disappear but the technology Will become normal.

00:29:51: And the big question is, does it make our lives better?

00:29:54: Does AI actually make our life easier faster safer more focused maybe just funnier and whether a product uses AI as of limited interest at the very end.

00:30:09: The quick bit questions what do I get out of a product?

00:30:12: technology development surprisingly often works the other way around.

00:30:15: yeah we have a technology We look for an application that can do something.

00:30:19: so he put in because And I consider that one of the most dangerous sentences in technology meetings because we can.

00:30:29: The better sequence would be, We have a relevant problem.

00:30:33: Can AI help us to solve it?

00:30:36: If yes wonderful.

00:30:38: if no Why are we putting in it In... ... in video introduced Cosmos A platform for training robots and autonomous systems in virtual worlds The term physical AI.

00:30:56: Until then, millions of people had primarily experienced AI on a screen.

00:31:03: Yeah?

00:31:04: AI generates text images codes videos but it always stayed in the digital arena.

00:31:13: physical AI changes that.

00:31:16: yeah I get sensors cameras radar leader actuators motors wheels arms lax and suddenly I can do more than say something.

00:31:26: It can do something.

00:31:29: In twenty-twenty six robotics and our official intelligence visibly began to merge.

00:31:36: AI gives robots an ability To perceive the environment, to interpret situations And make decisions.

00:31:45: Robotics give a physical presence.

00:31:51: Autonomous vehicles Robots drones mobile machinery axle skeletons Yeah, and they again share the loop perceive understanding decide act.

00:32:03: That that's what's happening.

00:32:05: So AI is leaving the screen the digital background And this is where things become sometimes very interesting.

00:32:15: as long as a I writes attacks for me are can ignore it.

00:32:20: When an AI system moves to a two-ton machine?

00:32:24: Things look different.

00:32:26: Suddenly.

00:32:26: we are talking about trust, safety responsibility control predictability explain ability.

00:32:32: The closer technology gets to humans physically the more important that human becomes.

00:32:41: and my CES reports I see three phases AI as a label AIS infrastructure.

00:32:47: an AI is an actor.

00:32:50: And now...the hard part begins.

00:32:54: Not the question of how intelligent machines will become but what do we want them to do for us?

00:33:01: Technology only becomes meaningful when it improves human lives and maybe that is the benchmark.

00:33:07: We need four several types of AI.

00:33:10: Yeah, not more agent in not no more a. I'm not bigger models No more parameters not another AI button on A on a device But technology degree arm that relieves people of monotonous and dangerous work.

00:33:27: If it makes mobility safer, supports you... ...people with disabilities or helps us making better decisions?

00:33:35: Yeah I can do all of that but just because something is possible.

00:33:43: the answer to this question isn't whether we CAN do it but whether WE NEED IT!

00:33:57: Alright Final chapter of today, number four.

00:34:00: Robots.

00:34:01: do machines really need to become human?

00:34:07: Robots fascinate people and me too in some ways.

00:34:11: whenever a humanoid robot walks around at a trite show A crowd comes together it watches us takes videos and photos And the robots they fault laundry They play table tennis, they do Tai Chi.

00:34:29: Well...they do boxing.

00:34:33: Yeah So that creates another video for the smartphone and social media.

00:34:37: And at the end I found myself asking a pretty unromantic question Why?

00:34:47: What for?

00:34:49: Traditional robots were straightforward.

00:34:52: An industrial robot welds paints lifts heavy parts assembles things.

00:34:57: It does not need to look human.

00:35:00: Form follows function.

00:35:03: A robot arm doesn't need a face, an autonomous transport vehicle doesn't needs legs... ...a welding robot doesn' t need pants but robots are increasingly leaving their cages.

00:35:14: they're moving closer to us humans In factories in hospitals and care facilities in hotels maybe at the very end of day in our homes and that changes a relationship with them.

00:35:33: Robots increasingly interact, they communicate ,they react.

00:35:38: maybe their recognize emotions may be can simulate it .

00:35:42: And as soon we give machines social characteristics humans respond socially.

00:35:49: We thank voice assistants!

00:35:51: We give robots names !We talk to our robot vacuum cleaner Sometimes two eyes, just to round circles.

00:36:04: A voice or a movement, the social movements are enough.

00:36:11: and in twenty-twenty six at the CES humanoid robots were everywhere.

00:36:16: yeah technically super impressive no question about this.

00:36:20: And then I stood in front of One of these robots where someone had apparently decided that's not enough it needs to look more humid.

00:36:32: So they got clothes.

00:36:34: They wore hats and then there was one with a silicone skin, And that was the moment where something changed for me.

00:36:46: Fascination becomes discomfort.

00:36:51: That's what called The Uncanny Valley.

00:36:54: When when Something A Mechanical Device Becomes Too Realistic I stood in front of this Robot with this human face out of silicon.

00:37:03: Obviously it was not a human, but I just felt like.

00:37:08: I Don't want this device close to me.

00:37:10: Yeah and the question arises why are we doing?

00:37:14: This And of course your face can make communication easier.

00:37:18: yeah eyes can signal attention gestures can make intentions understandable.

00:37:23: But for me this doesn't mean that the robot should like as much as a human is somehow possible.

00:37:30: Human compatible is not the same as human-like.

00:37:35: A robot should be understandable to humans, it movements should be predictable.

00:37:41: I Should know whether It has noticed me and what Is going to do next?

00:37:47: And maybe eyes a head arms an adjuster helps in a way but Does this skin need pores wrinkles hair The silicone skin?

00:38:00: i'm definitely Not sure.

00:38:04: So humanoid functionality is not human appearance.

00:38:09: There's a good technical reason for humanoid body shapes.

00:38:12: Yeah, our world the what we live in was built for us as humans.

00:38:16: stairs doors tools shelves workplaces my kitchen here.

00:38:21: yeah two legs can climb stairs to arms Can use human tools?

00:38:26: Hands can and can grip objects designed for human hands.

00:38:31: so all this is definitely somehow understandable.

00:38:36: So that there is a strong argument for this humanoid functionality, but not necessarily for a human appearance.

00:38:46: A robot can have two arms and two legs and still obviously be machine And maybe it would be more honest.

00:38:56: An honesty... ...is an HMI quality!

00:38:59: The good interface helps people assess the system correctly.

00:39:05: What can it do?

00:39:06: what cannot not to?

00:39:08: What is this doing?

00:39:09: how reliable.

00:39:09: Is It too much?

00:39:12: human likeness Can make that more difficult.

00:39:14: if a machine looks and speaks like you human it simulates emotions.

00:39:19: We may expect things from it, but it cannot deliver understanding empathy intentions morality And our brains through the rest and then let me fascinating but it also can become manipulative.

00:39:40: The question remains, where do robots make sense?

00:39:45: In an industry the business case is obvious.

00:39:48: labor shortage is physical strain dangerous work repetitive tasks raise of productivity all these problems exist.

00:39:58: technology helps values created great at home.

00:40:03: things get more difficult.

00:40:04: vacuum and mowing the lawn is a good task for robots.

00:40:10: Yeah, clear tasks are repetitive.

00:40:12: it's annoying.

00:40:12: I don't like to do it so robots can do it perfect but... Do i need the humanoid robot walking around in my home?

00:40:23: Well what exactly should we do?

00:40:25: Should you do it?

00:40:26: Fold the laundry load the dishwasher cook bring me beer.

00:40:31: okay that takes us somewhere else.

00:40:33: But private homes is unstructured chaotic emotional and full of exceptions.

00:40:39: That is why the value of many home robotics concepts still seem unclear, at least to me and at least in twenty-twenty six.

00:40:48: And that brings us into a question which interests much more than technical abilities.

00:40:55: It's not about what robots can do but what should robots do?

00:41:00: Technical capability does NOT answer social questions.

00:41:05: Just because a robot can replace human doesn't mean it should.

00:41:10: Just because we can design robots to appear emotional, it doesn't mean that you should encourage emotional relationships between humans and machines.

00:41:20: It just means that we need artificial humans!

00:41:28: There is this again... Because We Can Is In Technology Not A Useful Term?

00:41:37: Yeah, maybe the best robot is this one that doesn't try to be human.

00:41:41: at the very end of day technology Doesn't need to look like a human-to-be-human centered.

00:41:46: It's a big difference.

00:41:48: A good robot may create trust precisely by not Hiding in fact as it was machine.

00:41:55: This clearance function and easy to understand its predictable transparent helpful And we see it as artificial.

00:42:04: Yeah, it doesn't need to be my friend.

00:42:06: It doesn't mean to pretend love to me.

00:42:09: He doesn't meet you.

00:42:10: look like me.

00:42:12: Yeah, he should be able to do something that helps me and That's enough.

00:42:18: I don't eat anything more.

00:42:23: One more thing from automation.

00:42:25: two collaboration.

00:42:26: now that is maybe where the real evolution and then Robert Eglise did.

00:42:29: a traditional robot performs a task.

00:42:32: intelligent robots increasingly work with humans.

00:42:36: So it needs to perceive humans, recognize intentions adapt its behavior communicate and respect boundaries.

00:42:44: And humans need to understand what the robot is doing.

00:42:49: that brings robotics to exactly the same place where I autonomy in HMI are ending up with The human.

00:42:59: so at the very end What do i expect from CS?

00:43:07: human robots?

00:43:08: we will see them more AI.

00:43:11: Even better movements, better hands, more natural language and more agendic AI.

00:43:16: probably again more robots wearing clothes than having silicone skins.

00:43:20: I'm hoping for something else.

00:43:24: i am hoping for less.

00:43:26: look what a robot can do then more Look at the problem it solves Because the most impressive system may not be one that looks mostly like us.

00:43:39: It's The One That Compliments Us Best Yeah, and the ones to take over dangerous work that reduce physical strain support care workers enable mobility Give people with disabilities more independence or simply do the boring things.

00:43:58: So we have time for something else.

00:44:01: And this is where value has created.

00:44:05: Not for human likeness, not through spectacular demos and certainly not through silicone skin.

00:44:12: after five years of CS I'm less and less interested in how human robots will become.

00:44:20: I am interested in something else How human?

00:44:24: Will the world be that we built with robots?

00:44:34: Alright!

00:44:34: That's it for today.

00:44:36: Thanks for listening.

00:44:38: Next episode will be another three point five things of what?

00:44:44: Trends, of the trends are three point-five trends I have seen in The past five years at CES.

00:44:56: That's it for today.

00:44:58: Thank you for spending time with me.

00:45:01: i hope You were able to take something With you and do Something For Yourself that Will Be Forever For an unknown exchange, you will find me on LinkedIn and my websites beta minus rusco.com And beyond minus HMI dot.

00:45:19: de.

00:45:21: write me an email under podcast at Beyond Minus HMI Dot E. Do it next time take care and stay healthy.